与辨喜上师在马杜拉
本译文由人工智能辅助工具生成，可能存在不准确之处。如需查阅权威文本，请参考英文原文。
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中文
问——宇宙是虚假的这一理论，似乎可以从以下几种意义上来理解：（甲）相对于永恒而言，变灭的名相之持续时间是无限微小的；（乙）相对于永恒而言，两次宇宙归灭（劫灭）之间的时期是无限微小的；（丙）宇宙虽然目前依赖于某种意识而具有表面的实在性，但终究是虚假的，正如银色被叠加于贝壳之上，或蛇被叠加于绳索之上一样——在当时是真实的，实际上取决于心灵的特定状态；（丁）宇宙是幻影，犹如石女之子或兔角。
在不二（Advaita）哲学中，这一理论是在哪种意义上被理解的？
答——不二论者有许多派别，每一派都从上述某种意义来理解这一理论。商羯罗（Shankara）以（丙）的意义来教授这一理论。他的教导是：宇宙就其所呈现的样子而言，对于每一个处于当前意识状态中的人来说，在一切实际目的上都是真实的；但当意识提升到更高的形式时，它就消失了。你看到一棵树桩立在面前，你把它误认为是鬼。鬼的观念在当时是真实的，因为它作用于你的心灵，在你心中产生的效果与真有一个鬼完全一样。一旦你发现那是一截树桩，鬼的观念就消失了。树桩的观念和鬼的观念不能共存——当一个存在时，另一个便不存在。
问——在商羯罗的某些著作中，不是也采用了（丁）的意义吗？
答——不是。有些人错误地将商羯罗的观念推向了极端，在他们的著作中采用了（丁）的意义。（甲）和（乙）的意义是其他某些不二论哲学家著作中特有的，但从未得到商羯罗的认可。
问——这种表面实在性的原因是什么？
答——你把树桩误认为鬼的原因是什么？宇宙在本质上是同一的，但正是你的心灵为它创造了种种不同的状态。
问——吠陀（Vedas）是无始永恒的这一说法的真正含义是什么？这指的是吠陀的语句还是吠陀中所包含的义理？如果指的是这些义理中蕴含的真理，那么诸如逻辑学、几何学、化学等科学，由于它们也包含着永恒不变的真理，不也同样是无始永恒的吗？
答——曾有一个时代，吠陀本身被认为是永恒的，其含义是其中所包含的神圣真理是不变的、恒常的，只是被揭示给人类而已。到了后来，人们似乎认为带着对其意义的理解来诵读吠陀颂歌是重要的，因而主张颂歌本身必定具有神圣的起源。到了更后来的时期，颂歌的意义表明，其中许多不可能出自神圣的起源，因为它们要求人类执行种种不圣洁的行为，如折磨动物；我们还能在吠陀中发现许多荒诞的故事。"吠陀是无始永恒的"这一说法的正确含义是：它们向人类揭示的法则或真理是恒常不变的。逻辑学、几何学、化学等同样揭示了恒常不变的法则或真理，在这个意义上它们也是无始永恒的。但没有任何真理或法则不在吠陀之中，我请在座的任何一位指出一条不曾在吠陀中被论及的真理。
问——根据不二哲学，解脱（Moksha）的概念是什么？换言之，它是一种有意识的状态吗？不二论的解脱与佛教的涅槃之间有什么区别？
答——在解脱中有一种意识，我们称之为超意识。它不同于你当前的意识。说解脱中没有意识是不合逻辑的。意识有三种——迟钝的、中等的和强烈的——如同光一样。当振动强烈时，其光辉如此强大，以至于使视觉本身目眩，其效果实际上就如同最暗淡的光一样。佛教的涅槃也必定具有同等程度的意识，无论佛教徒怎么说。我们对解脱的定义在性质上是肯定的，而佛教涅槃的定义则是否定的。
问——无条件的梵为何要选择承受条件，以使世界得以显现和创造？
答——这个问题本身就是极不合逻辑的。梵是"言语与思维所不能及的"，意即言语和心灵都无法把握的。凡是超越空间、时间和因果领域的，都不能被人类心灵所构想，而逻辑和探究的功能仅限于空间、时间和因果的领域之内。既然如此，试图追问超越人类构想可能性之外的事物，便是徒劳的。
问——这里那里有人试图为往世书（Puranas）注入隐含的思想，据说这些思想以寓言的方式表达。有时有人说往世书不必包含任何历史真实，而只是以虚构人物来阐示最高理想。以《毗湿奴往世书》、《罗摩衍那》或《摩诃婆罗多》为例——它们包含历史真实，还是仅仅是形而上学真理的寓言表达？是人类行为最高理想的阐示，还是如荷马史诗那样纯粹的叙事诗？
答——每一部往世书的核心都有某些历史真实。往世书的目的是以各种形式向人类教授崇高的真理；即使它们不包含任何历史真实，就其所灌输的最高真理而言，它们对我们仍然是伟大的权威。以《罗摩衍那》为例来说明：将它视为塑造品格的权威，甚至不需要一个像罗摩那样的人真正存在过。《罗摩衍那》或《摩诃婆罗多》所阐述的法则之崇高，并不取决于罗摩或克里希纳（Krishna）等人格的真实性——人们甚至可以认为这些人物从未存在过，同时仍将这些著作视为其呈现给人类之伟大理念的崇高权威。我们的哲学并不依赖任何人格来确立其真理。因此，克里希纳并未向世界教授任何新的或独创的东西，《罗摩衍那》也并不宣称任何不包含在经典中的内容。应当注意的是，基督教不能没有基督，伊斯兰教不能没有穆罕默德，佛教不能没有佛陀（Buddha），但印度教独立于任何个人而存在；为了评估任何一部往世书中所包含的哲学真理，我们无需考虑其中所记述的人物究竟是真实的历史人物还是虚构的角色。往世书的目的是教育人类，构造它们的圣贤设法找到一些历史人物，将一切最好或最坏的品质按照他们的需要附加于其上，并为人类的行为制定了道德准则。难道必须有一个十头的恶魔（十首魔王）如《罗摩衍那》中所述那样真正存在过吗？那不过是某种真理的象征表达，值得人们撇开十首魔王是真实人物还是虚构角色的问题来加以研究。你如今可以用更加动人的方式来描绘克里希纳，而这种描绘取决于你理想的崇高程度——但往世书中所包含的伟大哲学始终屹立不倒。
问——一个人如果是修行有成者，是否有可能回忆起与其前世有关的事件？他在前世所拥有的生理性大脑——其中储存着他经验的印象——已经不复存在。今生他被赋予了一个新的生理性大脑；既然如此，现在的大脑怎么可能获取另一个目前已不存在的器官所接收的印象呢？
斯瓦米——你所说的"修行有成者"是什么意思？
记者——已经开发了自身隐藏力量的人。
斯瓦米——我无法理解隐藏的力量怎么能被"开发"。我明白你的意思，但我始终希望使用的表述是精确而准确的。你可以说隐藏的力量被揭开了。那些揭开了自身隐藏力量的人，是有可能回忆起与前世相关的事件的，因为他们现在的大脑在死后的细微体中有其种子（Bija）。
问——印度教的精神是否允许将外人纳入其中？一个婆罗门能否听取一个旃陀罗对哲学的阐述？
答——印度教是容许接纳外人的。任何人，无论是首陀罗还是旃陀罗，都可以向婆罗门阐述哲学。真理可以从最低微的个人那里学到，无论他属于哪个种姓或信仰。
在这里，斯瓦米引用了具有崇高权威的梵语经句来支持他的立场。
讨论至此结束，因为日程中安排他参观寺庙的时间已经到了。他随即向在座的诸位辞行，前往参观寺庙。
English
Q. — The theory that the universe is false seems to be understood in the following senses: (a) the sense in which the duration of perishing forms and names is infinitesimally small with reference to eternity; (b) the sense in which the period between any two Pralayas (involution of the universe) is infinitesimally small with reference to eternity; (c) the sense in which the universe is ultimately false though it has an apparent reality at present, depending upon one sort of consciousness, in the same way as the idea of silver superimposed on a shell or that of a serpent on a rope, is true for the time being, and, in effect, is dependent upon a particular condition of mind; (d) the sense in which the universe is a phantom just like the son of a barren woman or like the horns of a hare.
In which of these senses is the theory understood in the Advaita philosophy?
A. — There are many classes of Advaitists and each has understood the theory in one or the other sense. Shankara taught the theory in the sense (c), and it is his teaching that the universe, as it appears, is real for all purposes for every one in his present consciousness, but it vanishes when the consciousness assumes a higher form. You see the trunk of a tree standing before you, and you mistake it for a ghost. The idea of a ghost is for the time being real, for it works on your mind and produces the same result upon it as if it were a ghost. As soon as you discover it to be a stump, the idea of the ghost disappears. The idea of a stump and that of the ghost cannot co-exist, and when one is present, the other is absent.
Q. — Is not the sense (d) also adopted in some of the writings of Shankara?
A. — No. Some other men who, by mistake, carried Shankara's notion to an extreme have adopted the sense (d) in their writing. The senses (a) and (b) are peculiar to the writings of some other classes of Advaita philosophers but never received Shankara's sanction.
Q. — What is the cause of the apparent reality?
A. — What is the cause of your mistaking a stump for a ghost? The universe is the same, in fact, but it is your mind that creates various conditions for it.
Q. — What is the true meaning of the statement that the Vedas are beginningless and eternal? Does it refer to the Vedic utterances or the statements contained in the Vedas? If it refers to the truth involved in such statements, are not the sciences, such as Logic, Geometry, Chemistry, etc., equally beginningless and eternal, for they contain an everlasting truth?
A. — There was a time when the Vedas themselves were considered eternal in the sense in which the divine truths contained therein were changeless and permanent and were only revealed to man. At a subsequent time, it appears that the utterance of the Vedic hymns with the knowledge of its meaning was important, and it was held that the hymns themselves must have had a divine origin. At a still later period the meaning of the hymns showed that many of them could not be of divine origin, because they inculcated upon mankind performance of various unholy acts, such as torturing animals, and we can also find many ridiculous stories in the Vedas. The correct meaning of the statement "The Vedas are beginningless and eternal" is that the law or truth revealed by them to man is permanent and changeless. Logic, Geometry, Chemistry, etc., reveal also a law or truth which is permanent and changeless, and in that sense they are also beginningless and eternal. But no truth or law is absent from the Vedas, and I ask any one of you to point out to me any truth which is not treated of in them.
Q. — What is the notion of Mukti, according to the Advaita philosophy, or in other words, is it a conscious state? Is there any difference between the Mukti of the Advaitism and the Buddhistic Nirvâna?
A. — There is a consciousness in Mukti, which we call superconsciousness. It differs from your present consciousness. It is illogical to say that there is no consciousness in Mukti. The consciousness is of three sorts — the dull, mediocre, and intense — as is the case of light. When vibration is intense, the brilliancy is so very powerful as to dazzle the sight itself and in effect is as ineffectual as the dullest of lights. The Buddhistic Nirvana must have the same degree of consciousness whatever the Buddhists may say. Our definition of Mukti is affirmative in its nature, while the Buddhistic Nirvana has a negative definition.
Q. — Why should the unconditioned Brahman choose to assume a condition for the purpose of manifestation of the world's creation?
A. — The question itself is most illogical. Brahman is Avângmanasogocharam, meaning that which is incapable of being grasped by word and mind. Whatever lies beyond the region of space, time and causation cannot be conceived by the human mind, and the function of logic and enquiry lies only within the region of space, time, and causation. While that is so, it is a vain attempt to question about what lies beyond the possibilities of human conception.
Q. — Here and there attempts are made to import into the Purânas hidden ideas which are said to have been allegorically represented. Sometimes it is said that the Puranas need not contain any historical truth, but are mere representations of the highest ideals illustrated with fictitious characters. Take for instance, Vishnupurâna, Râmâyana, or Bhârata. Do they contain historical veracity or are they mere allegorical representations of metaphysical truths, or are they representations of the highest ideals for the conduct of humanity, or are they mere epic poems such as those of Homer?
A. — Some historical truth is the nucleus of every Purana. The object of the Puranas is to teach mankind the sublime truth in various forms; and even if they do not contain any historical truth, they form a great authority for us in respect of the highest truth which they inculcate. Take the Râmâyana, for illustration, and for viewing it as an authority on building character, it is not even necessary that one like Rama should have ever lived. The sublimity of the law propounded by Ramayana or Bharata does not depend upon the truth of any personality like Rama or Krishna, and one can even hold that such personages never lived, and at the same time take those writings as high authorities in respect of the grand ideas which they place before mankind. Our philosophy does not depend upon any personality for its truth. Thus Krishna did not teach anything new or original to the world, nor does Ramayana profess anything which is not contained in the Scriptures. It is to be noted that Christianity cannot stand without Christ, Mohammedanism without Mohammed, and Buddhism without Buddha, but Hinduism stands independent of any man, and for the purpose of estimating the philosophical truth contained in any Purana, we need not consider the question whether the personages treated of therein were really material men or were fictitious characters. The object of the Puranas was the education of mankind, and the sages who constructed them contrived to find some historical personages and to superimpose upon them all the best or worst qualities just as they wanted to, and laid down the rules of morals for the conduct of mankind. Is it necessary that a demon with ten heads (Dashamukha) should have actually lived as stated in the Ramayana? It is the representation of some truth which deserves to be studied, apart from the question whether Dashamukha was a real or fictitious character. You can now depict Krishna in a still more attractive manner, and the description depends upon the sublimity of your ideal, but there stands the grand philosophy contained in the Puranas.
Q. — Is it possible for a man, if he were an adept, to remember the events connected with his past incarnations? The physiological brain, which he owned in his previous incarnation, and in which the impressions of his experience were stored, is no longer present. In this birth he is endowed with a new physiological brain, and while that is so, how is it possible for the present brain to get at the impressions received by another apparatus which is not existence at present?
Swami — What do you mean by an adept?
Correspondent — One that has developed the hidden powers of his nature.
Swami — I cannot understand how the hidden powers can be developed. I know what you mean, but I should always desire that the expressions used are precise and accurate. You may say that the powers hidden are uncovered. It is possible for those that have uncovered the hidden powers of their nature to remember the incidents connected with their past incarnations, for their present brain had its Bija (seed) in the Sukshma man after death.
Q. — Does the spirit of Hinduism permit the proselytism of strangers into it? And can a Brâhmin listen to the exposition of philosophy made by a Chandâla?
A. — Proselytism is tolerated by Hinduism. Any man, whether he be a Shudra or Chandala, can expound philosophy even to a Brahmin. The truth can be learnt from the lowest individual, no matter to what caste or creed he belongs.
Here the Swami quoted Sanskrit verses of high authority in support of his position.
The discourse ended, as the time appointed in the programme for his visiting the Temple had already arrived. He accordingly took leave of the gentlemen present and proceeded to visit the Temple.
文本来自Wikisource公共领域。原版由阿德瓦伊塔修道院出版。